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Author Topic: BCD with back plates  (Read 17321 times)

edwinpang

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Re: BCD with back plates
« Reply #10 on: 12 Jul 14, 13:37 »
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  • Hi

    Just an advices it incurred to me when my Diverite Backplate arrived from US. The bladder (Wing) is found to be faulty. Do check it when you intend to purchase online. Good things are they provided exchange services immediately without any additional costs bears by user.

    Happy diving !!

    antacid

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    Re: BCD with back plates
    « Reply #11 on: 14 Jul 14, 00:18 »
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  • that article on why a BP is better than a jacket has very flawed reasoning.

    1. air in a jacket and BP/wing will behave in the same way - it will go to the highest point of the BCD and not around/under a diver in a jacket BCD, and also not flat like a sandwich in a BP/wing.

    2. divers with a BP/wing will still have weights around their waist and not evenly distributed across the upper torso -- where else do you wear your weightbelt? Maybe that diagram is true if you're using a steel backplate. Most aluminium ones we use here are maybe 2 pounds negative. Not much of a difference to claim as a benefit if you are properly weighted from the start.

    i use both jackets and BP/wings, and don't find any great difference in helping to maintain trim. Maybe a little more streamlined, but after adding all the pouches and 3241276512 things from the D-rings, maybe about the same. I'm using the BP/wing more because it's lighter than my jacket. But given a choice and assuming weight is the same, i'd go with my jacket BCD anytime because it's easier to put on and more comfy overall.

    siaokao

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    Re: BCD with back plates
    « Reply #12 on: 14 Jul 14, 11:58 »
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  • that article on why a BP is better than a jacket has very flawed reasoning.

    1. air in a jacket and BP/wing will behave in the same way - it will go to the highest point of the BCD and not around/under a diver in a jacket BCD, and also not flat like a sandwich in a BP/wing.

    2. divers with a BP/wing will still have weights around their waist and not evenly distributed across the upper torso -- where else do you wear your weightbelt? Maybe that diagram is true if you're using a steel backplate. Most aluminium ones we use here are maybe 2 pounds negative. Not much of a difference to claim as a benefit if you are properly weighted from the start.

    i use both jackets and BP/wings, and don't find any great difference in helping to maintain trim. Maybe a little more streamlined, but after adding all the pouches and 3241276512 things from the D-rings, maybe about the same. I'm using the BP/wing more because it's lighter than my jacket. But given a choice and assuming weight is the same, i'd go with my jacket BCD anytime because it's easier to put on and more comfy overall.

    I think many may look at trim issue in too simplistic a way.  Good trim is not just BCD, it involve skills.  A good BCD may help one achieve good trim easier, but there is still diver factor and other considerations.

    How IMHO a backplate can help are as follows:

    1.  True that air will get stuck to the highest point, but in a wing, air will get stuck much higher than a jacket styled BCD.  In some ways, it does raise the centre of buoyancy and lower diver's CG.  Resulting in a more stable trim position.

    2.  A BP BCD do help better distribute weights as at least 2lb are shifted higher upwards to the back of diver and directly under lifting wing.  True that some may still have weights on our waist, as long as you are not carrying a ton of them, diver's CG do get shifted closer to the head.

    The way I see it, more than 80% of the divers using BP system do not understand how to effectively use it.  Most use it because friends and forums like this says good things about them.  In fact, manufacturers are all jumping into it, making 'half-breed' BP BCDs for these divers.  More than 80% of the backplate divers I've seen are not able to maintain trim, carry tons of rubbish on their D-rings.  Some have so many D-rings and pouches attached, making the molly vest Navy Seals wear to war pale in comparison. What streamlining are we talking about?

    To truly understand how backplate system works, one should study how and where the system comes about.  There is no better way than to study the source.. DIR diving.

    All the benefits of the bp stability is useless if one is still diving and hovering in a seahorse position.  Weight distribution advantage is nulled with an overweighted diver, streamlining is not achieved with a poorly configured package.

    Inherent reliability of such BCD are also gone as manufacturers make fashionable BP BCDs to cater to these 80% crowd, adding bells and whistles such as plastic 'quick release' buckles, pull dump valves, extra dump valves, silly paddings and over size wings with bungee cords (one size fits all wing). A totally opposite direction to the "less is more" concept of a true BP system.

    Therefore, bp or not, which bp?  There is no simple answer to this, one really need to do some serious homework and some face to face talk with the right person.  I'm not suggesting you can't buy fanciful Bps, every diver is free to choose, buy one that you fancy, please go ahead.  But without understanding the original BP concept, one will rarely enjoy the benefits. Remember, bp is part of a diving system, not just a stand alone miracle item.  :)
    « Last Edit: 14 Jul 14, 12:03 by siaokao »
    So they call it a 'FACT' coz someone made some statements on a 'FACT SHEET'? hummm...

    siaokao

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    Re: BCD with back plates
    « Reply #13 on: 14 Jul 14, 12:14 »
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  • Just bought dive rite Backplate XT Lite. Good deal but unsure with the lightness of it.  Website told it less than a kg.  But I ended up with 10 kg off baggage (dive gear only). First time use and see no issue at all.  No face slamming case.  Enjoyed it.  It just that the plate rusting after 2 days of diving. What we did just rinse it on fresh water after the end of dive. Checking with the dealer now what's going on...
    geez.. that sounds bad!  I have mine for years and hundreds of dives, no rust.  You did 2 days of diving and it rusted?  :o :o :o
    So they call it a 'FACT' coz someone made some statements on a 'FACT SHEET'? hummm...

    kebosatu

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    Re: BCD with back plates
    « Reply #14 on: 14 Jul 14, 12:22 »
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  • geez.. that sounds bad!  I have mine for years and hundreds of dives, no rust.  You did 2 days of diving and it rusted?  :o :o :o
    Apparently they said it normal, just put it in warm water and then rub it with your finger.  It's gone apparently after I did that.  It didnt come back again after my another round of dives.

    I don't really understand of what they tech sup guy said, but probably it's just an excess material or something.  And it happens only on the plater surface layer...  It's fine now.

    limk

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    Re: BCD with back plates
    « Reply #15 on: 14 Jul 14, 12:40 »
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  • weird
    most plates won't rust or even collect any residue stuff at all.

    BareBear

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    Re: BCD with back plates
    « Reply #16 on: 14 Jul 14, 14:56 »
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  • Apparently they said it normal, just put it in warm water and then rub it with your finger.  It's gone apparently after I did that.  It didnt come back again after my another round of dives.

    I don't really understand of what they tech sup guy said, but probably it's just an excess material or something.  And it happens only on the plater surface layer...  It's fine now.

    The rust is probably not from the BP but from the die used to cut out the shape of the BP. As the die is stamped under a lot of pressure to cut the BP, some of the material rubs off. The die is made of very high carbon steel, and will rust. So the rust spots you saw are probably that.

    I had the same thing happen to my Spyderco Salt, which is made of H1 steel which does not rust. The logo portion of the knife developed a bad rust spot after my first dive. After some online searching, I found out it's the remnants of the die used to stamp the logo that was rusting, not the knife.

    After a few more dives, I guess all the die material has rusted away, and now it looks fine.

    kebosatu

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    Re: BCD with back plates
    « Reply #17 on: 14 Jul 14, 15:00 »
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  • The rust is probably not from the BP but from the die used to cut out the shape of the BP. As the die is stamped under a lot of pressure to cut the BP, some of the material rubs off. The die is made of very high carbon steel, and will rust. So the rust spots you saw are probably that.

    I had the same thing happen to my Spyderco Salt, which is made of H1 steel which does not rust. The logo portion of the knife developed a bad rust spot after my first dive. After some online searching, I found out it's the remnants of the die used to stamp the logo that was rusting, not the knife.

    After a few more dives, I guess all the die material has rusted away, and now it looks fine.
    Yes! This is exactly what the guy told me. I just didn't really get it what he saying last time, I roughly I know what he meant. I followed his instruction and everything fine now.  Thanks BareBear. This is clearer.

    Ddivex

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    Re: BCD with back plates
    « Reply #18 on: 14 Jul 14, 15:28 »
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  • The way I see it, more than 80% of the divers using BP system do not understand how to effectively use it.  Most use it because friends and forums like this says good things about them.  In fact, manufacturers are all jumping into it, making 'half-breed' BP BCDs for these divers.  More than 80% of the backplate divers I've seen are not able to maintain trim, carry tons of rubbish on their D-rings.  Some have so many D-rings and pouches attached, making the molly vest Navy Seals wear to war pale in comparison. What streamlining are we talking about?

    All the benefits of the bp stability is useless if one is still diving and hovering in a seahorse position. 

    SWEE la. This is what I thought.
    Time(s) when you overheard some talking about being "more trim" and jacket is so not trimmed. When you saw them diving, they look like a clown. Or rather Rambo with many grenade on the d rings thinking they might throw it anytime.  :-X

    worse are those attaching their pointer or torches on the d ring.. dragging them like superman flying without any clothing. talk about trim..
    « Last Edit: 14 Jul 14, 15:32 by Ddivex »
    revolution is nothing but the start of the next fall.

    BareBear

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    Re: BCD with back plates
    « Reply #19 on: 14 Jul 14, 15:54 »
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  • Yes! This is exactly what the guy told me. I just didn't really get it what he saying last time, I roughly I know what he meant. I followed his instruction and everything fine now.  Thanks BareBear. This is clearer.

    Glad it was helpful.  :)