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Author Topic: DIR configuration : Octopus on regulator necklace ?  (Read 4522 times)

snikrs

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Re: DIR configuration : Octopus on regulator necklace ?
« Reply #10 on: 11 May 16, 07:39 »
In my experience diving the long hose setup, both balanced and unbalanced second-stages work perfectly fine for necklaced backups. Unbalanced second-stages are just a recommendation that simplifies equipment configuration, in addition to reducing points to consider when preparing your equipment for diving. Balanced second-stages these days are adjustable,   both venturi and air flow. By simply turning these down, it would perform similarly to a properly tuned unbalanced second-stage at depth. In my opinion, using a balanced second-stage for the backup gives you the comfort to increase the air flow should you need to do an air share for an extended period. For me, turning the backup with the mouthpiece facing down has done well enough to prevent free flows. Occasionally, it still does free flow when I jump/roll off the boat, but its a simple quick action to turn the regulator facing down again.

Now, with regards to having a necklaced backup with an inappropriately long hose length - it's not ideal, but it's fine to work with. You will have to remember that the hoses bow out more, sometimes way past the size of your body frame and IS a hazard. As such, it's better to use a removable bungee/surgical tube loop (such as those sold by Dive Gear Express or Diving Solutions), rather than attaching it permanently to the second-stage with cable ties. In the scenario if something gets caught in the hose, at least there's a breakaway connection.

Your desire to better yourself in diving is admirable! Here's my humble suggestion - dive the necklaced backup with the equipment you have, until you feel ready to switch out the hoses. Using both hose lengths allow you to experience the differences, and why the Hogarthian system is designed the way it is. Also, while doing so, it trains your muscle memory to use your necklaced backup, rather than reaching back for the octopus in an emergency, like what seaturtle and darrenlowjq have mentioned.

Using a long hose/necklaced backup and a backplate/wing does not make it a DIR setup. It's just a Hogarthian setup. DIR is a holistic system whereby your fellow divers (team) dives a similar setup, and everyone comes together in a single frame of mind to accomplish a goal diving. To find out more about DIR diving in depth, you can check out courses by both GUE and UTD, as they operate on the same principles. GUE courses are conducted by Living Oceans and Living Seas in Singapore, while UTD courses are run by Rainbow Reef. They run fantastic courses in preparing you for team-based DIR diving and is essential in your next step towards DIR, should you choose to follow that school of thought.

Happy diving!
« Last Edit: 11 May 16, 15:16 by snikrs »

ronniegogs

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Re: DIR configuration : Octopus on regulator necklace ?
« Reply #11 on: 11 May 16, 10:38 »
Thank you everyone for all your inputs. This was my first thread here and I definitely got good bit of information. Thank you for the sources for DIR training. The permanent attachment for bolt snap makes me a bit uncomfortable too and I do plan on getting the breakaway bungie.

With regards to my buddy, I took my next trip buddy to the pool with me so that he is familiar with my equipment. I also plan to go through my setup and his setup with him before we go into the water so that we are both familiar with each others setup. I plan to do this if my buddy changes on different trips. I am lucky to have a diving group for the trips after Tioman with loads of experienced divers (think we have 3 DMs in our group not including the diving resort DM) who are always helpful and providing feedback.

Absolutely fell in love with scuba when I did my OW last year. I just want to get better at it and don't leave any risk to chance if I can avoid it. Even got my DAN insurance this month :)

snikrs

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Re: DIR configuration : Octopus on regulator necklace ?
« Reply #12 on: 11 May 16, 11:04 »
Thank you everyone for all your inputs. This was my first thread here and I definitely got good bit of information. Thank you for the sources for DIR training. The permanent attachment for bolt snap makes me a bit uncomfortable too and I do plan on getting the breakaway bungie.

With regards to my buddy, I took my next trip buddy to the pool with me so that he is familiar with my equipment. I also plan to go through my setup and his setup with him before we go into the water so that we are both familiar with each others setup. I plan to do this if my buddy changes on different trips. I am lucky to have a diving group for the trips after Tioman with loads of experienced divers (think we have 3 DMs in our group not including the diving resort DM) who are always helpful and providing feedback.

Absolutely fell in love with scuba when I did my OW last year. I just want to get better at it and don't leave any risk to chance if I can avoid it. Even got my DAN insurance this month :)

It's good to see such a positive approach to diving for a change! Many people don't look to improve themselves upon certification, other than striving to clocking more dives or jumping in the water with a new camera. I'm always looking for company who are interested to discuss and brainstorm about better diving! Feel free to drop me a PM if you need any more resources on diving or just a chat!

ronniegogs

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Re: DIR configuration : Octopus on regulator necklace ?
« Reply #13 on: 11 May 16, 14:08 »
It's good to see such a positive approach to diving for a change! Many people don't look to improve themselves upon certification, other than striving to clocking more dives or jumping in the water with a new camera. I'm always looking for company who are interested to discuss and brainstorm about better diving! Feel free to drop me a PM if you need any more resources on diving or just a chat!

Thanks for the offer... Fair warning though I am a big gear fanatic...  :D

antacid

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Re: DIR configuration : Octopus on regulator necklace ?
« Reply #14 on: 11 May 16, 14:55 »
I think using either method is fine, as long as your equipment is set up for it. Both methods work, and have their own advantages.

It's only going to get dangerous when you try to use your equipment in ways it is not designed for -- like having the octopus around your neck on a 26" hose, and then having the primary routed similar on a 24" hose. Add on the task loading from struggling with your new gear, being on a course (deep adventure at 30m), and you're still not familiar with diving yet.
These small things add up and become a diving incident we read about in the papers.

Whichever method you decide to go for, get your gear configured right.

siaokao

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Re: DIR configuration : Octopus on regulator necklace ?
« Reply #15 on: 13 May 16, 18:29 »
I started diving DIR style before I reached 30 dive for the same reasons like u. But if you are taking a 'conventional' advance OW course, you may like to keep you set up till after u complete your course. And if you seriously are interested to go along the DIR path, I strongly suggest taking a course. There are several technical based course available, but IMHO, there is no other agency more true to DIR diving than GUE. If you do decide to try long hose setup, best try and practice some drills in pool (with supervision). Remember, DIR diving is not just about gear configuration, it's about mindset. Trying to use your current hose (with swivel regulator joint tsk tsk) and put it around your neck is not DIR. :)

Balanced regs are fine, I have S600 on both my primary and secondary without any issues.

I also dived with many other divers who may not understand DIR rigs, I always make it a point to brief them before dive. Most importantly, I will emphasize to them in the event they need air from me, take the regulator from my mouth, not the one hanging near my neck. Other than the regulator 'confusion' there usually is nothing much to worry about.
So they call it a 'FACT' coz someone made some statements on a 'FACT SHEET'? hummm...

alvlim

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Re: DIR configuration : Octopus on regulator necklace ?
« Reply #16 on: 17 May 16, 22:58 »
For me i solve this by using a SS1 so no more octo, if anything happen to my primary i will just need to take out my BC hose attach with a SS1 and breath like a normal reg.

Personal opinion is that long hose is more applicable to wreck or cave dive as need passing through narrow passage or cave opening before have chance to surface. for open water, better stick to the training, that once OOA or reg malfunction buddy share and surface, and not buddy share and continue the dive. there for most of the time long hose does not have much function in open water dive. length of hose of the normal 2nd stage is good enough, octo hose is slightly longer which is even more then enough.

think the important thing is that whatever set up you do, just make sure you know and be used to using it especially under stress, if not it will just cause more harm then help.

seaturtle

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Re: DIR configuration : Octopus on regulator necklace ?
« Reply #17 on: 18 May 16, 07:10 »
There's more to the long hose than just passing through narrow passages in an overhead environment. Firstly, like so many before me have mentioned, you streamline your gear. Too often I've seen divers dragging their octopus through the sea bed, even if the regulator is attached somewhere.

Also the long hose doesn't mean you and your buddy continue diving in the event of equipment malfunction or out-of-gas scenario. Any properly trained diver should know that the dive is called in any situation that puts anyone at risk. The long hose is beneficial in open water when you have a panicked diver with arms flailing. It puts additional distance between yourself and the panicked diver during the ascent. With a traditional hose configuration, the panicked diver might get too close and start ripping your mask, reg, or even your face off. I'm not saying it can't happen with a long hose just that there's a lower chance.

ronniegogs

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Re: DIR configuration : Octopus on regulator necklace ?
« Reply #18 on: 18 May 16, 13:11 »
Back from the trip. Tried the necklace approach and octo clipped to the chest D ring. I think I prefer the octo clipped to my D ring for now. I am comfortable giving either as I can still easily use the octo clipped to my D ring. Also I had to do a real buddy situation during one of the dives. Had to do a ascent with buddy's octo in my hand and in a roman handshake in-case I needed to switch as I was low on air (20 bar). Wont go into details but I didn't panic and we did our ascent on a low depth (max 11m) dive. Did the safety stop and SMB deployment was done by my buddy. Although we did have to calm our nerves back on the boat. SPG reading on the surface was 0 but was able to inflate my BCD.

poh6702

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Re: DIR configuration : Octopus on regulator necklace ?
« Reply #19 on: 18 May 16, 15:08 »
Back from the trip. Tried the necklace approach and octo clipped to the chest D ring. I think I prefer the octo clipped to my D ring for now. I am comfortable giving either as I can still easily use the octo clipped to my D ring. Also I had to do a real buddy situation during one of the dives. Had to do a ascent with buddy's octo in my hand and in a roman handshake in-case I needed to switch as I was low on air (20 bar). Wont go into details but I didn't panic and we did our ascent on a low depth (max 11m) dive. Did the safety stop and SMB deployment was done by my buddy. Although we did have to calm our nerves back on the boat. SPG reading on the surface was 0 but was able to inflate my BCD.
Yes, getting panic is the biggest enemy in diving, one up to you that you were not panic. But on second thought I also don't feel good that you only switch over to your buddy's Octo as low as 20bar, unless you were very sure that your buddy still have a lots of air, but seems that your buddy was also quite low on air (From my reading of your post).