Author Topic: Last weekend at Tioman  (Read 8054 times)

Alvin Ho

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Re: Last weekend at Tioman
« Reply #10 on: 13 Sep 13, 09:41 »
Inexperience??  If no one chellenge or point out the mistake, will he/she ever learn? That will be another accident waiting to happen.

The most unforgiving mistake in my opinion is that they lost one diver (especially untrained diver) without notice, did the instructor teach buddy system and practicing it? What about lost buddy drill? 

Secondly, I remember duirng my PADI OWC, the first 3 dives were all static practicing and testing all necessary skills like bouyancy control, clearing of mask, CESA, budy share air, buddy breathing, regulator second stage got knock off with the 2 methods of recovering the regulator, and on water surface, practice taking out and putting on weght belt, BCD, how to push and tow the other diver, there were so many basic skills to be tested and ensure trainee are proficent, then only swimming around on the forth dive, I am surprice that they were doing swimming around already within the first 3 dives? Did the instructor short cut all the skill tests?

I heard lots of pointer banging.... But then again, nowadays dive leaders like to bang way too much so most of the time i will ignore the banging unless it is repeated n continuous. However after this lost diver joined me i didn't hear any more banging so i don't know if they were actively looking for e lost diver or knew they had a lost diver.


The dive leaders might have thought their divers were comfortable enough and wanted to finish the rest of their drills at a later time. No idea.
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lybc

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Re: Last weekend at Tioman
« Reply #11 on: 13 Sep 13, 09:56 »
Inexperience??  If no one chellenge or point out the mistake, will he/she ever learn? That will be another accident waiting to happen.

The most unforgiving mistake in my opinion is that they lost one diver (especially untrained diver) without notice, did the instructor teach buddy system and practicing it? What about lost buddy drill? 

Secondly, I remember duirng my PADI OWC, the first 3 dives were all static practicing and testing all necessary skills like bouyancy control, clearing of mask, CESA, budy share air, buddy breathing, regulator second stage got knock off with the 2 methods of recovering the regulator, and on water surface, practice taking out and putting on weght belt, BCD, how to push and tow the other diver, there were so many basic skills to be tested and ensure trainee are proficent, then only swimming around on the forth dive, I am surprice that they were doing swimming around already within the first 3 dives? Did the instructor short cut all the skill tests?

Thats why as a more experienced diver, u can tell them in a nice manner on how things could have been done better. Losing your top over such issues is not going to help any party.

If I remember correctly, for OW courses, only 2 training dives a day are allowed. Hence, the 3rd dive is usually a leisure dive. Perhaps an instructor can verify on this? There are 21 skills to be cleared in all (maybe I am outdated).

If 1 staff to 4 divers could result in a lost diver in Aur (refer to the incident at the beginning of the year), the chases of losing a diver in a ratio of 4-22 (1 staff to 5-6 divers), given the possibility of inexperience in this case.

Chill dude.

lybc

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Re: Last weekend at Tioman
« Reply #12 on: 13 Sep 13, 09:57 »
I think total group size was 22 with 4 dive leaders. All were students i think, at most 2-4 leisure divers.

I thought communication was good enough. As our group was smaller but had more experienced dive leaders, our group leader asked theirs how many dives they wanted to do and advised the timing needed accordingly. All timings were agreed to by both sides. Our dive leader even helped call their transport operator on sat initially to change the timing at mersing to an earlier timing.

Thats cool. Thats what I like about working like a family in the diving industry.  :D

We help and look out for one another.  8)

Alvin Ho

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Re: Last weekend at Tioman
« Reply #13 on: 13 Sep 13, 10:37 »
Thats cool. Thats what I like about working like a family in the diving industry.  :D

We help and look out for one another.  8)

Was pretty chill till the dude came up to me 30min before departure time as i was walking to the jetty with my gear to drop the bombshell. Anyway inexperience is one thing. They really should have sought help if they knew on sat night that they needed more time to complete the dives. Or earlier on sunday morning. Last min changes are sure to get the blood pressure raised. Anyway not pissed, just really shocked that some common sense things (to me) are apparently not so common haha.  ???
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limk

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Re: Last weekend at Tioman
« Reply #14 on: 13 Sep 13, 11:24 »
pointer banging is a total sht way to communicate because it's not respected
any dude that can spare $10 can have one and knock away, just to let u know they found a starfish

sounds like those incidents (mask drop, fin loose) are typical of novice instructors
nowadays instructor mentoring is not common i guess - say, a new instructor pair with his trainer to take students
(just like a DM OJT thing)

Alvin Ho

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Re: Last weekend at Tioman
« Reply #15 on: 13 Sep 13, 14:08 »
pointer banging is a total sht way to communicate because it's not respected
any dude that can spare $10 can have one and knock away, just to let u know they found a starfish

sounds like those incidents (mask drop, fin loose) are typical of novice instructors
nowadays instructor mentoring is not common i guess - say, a new instructor pair with his trainer to take students
(just like a DM OJT thing)

I'm guessing this is a young group of friends who went oversees and did their IDC together and then came back and started a shop or some sort. Who knows??
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siaokao

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Re: Last weekend at Tioman
« Reply #16 on: 13 Sep 13, 14:12 »
This kind of operations.. Should expose them! For one, make sure new divers who dun know better to keep away from these ppl. 2ndly, get them to wake up their ideas.. These are operators that put bad name to the sport!
So they call it a 'FACT' coz someone made some statements on a 'FACT SHEET'? hummm...

limk

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Re: Last weekend at Tioman
« Reply #17 on: 13 Sep 13, 14:15 »
that's why i am all for some kind of thing where a name or a shop can get recognition/status based on something tangible...

forum reviews & praises are great, but lack that level of legitimacy...hm..

Alvin Ho

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Re: Last weekend at Tioman
« Reply #18 on: 13 Sep 13, 14:24 »
Forum posts tend to be one sided rants.... As i am doing here somewhat so lack the legitimacy mentioned. Plus naming and shaming usually does not produce much in a way of positive reactions. A quiet word was spoken to by my dive leaders and hopefully they took heed of the advice and improve in the future.
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Dave1w

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Re: Last weekend at Tioman
« Reply #19 on: 13 Sep 13, 14:51 »
Don't worry, their students will qualify, out of the 22, maybe 3 or 4 will quickly become instructors, and carry on the same behavior with their students, and it will all go on and on and on.

People are knocking the SUF guidelines posted in other threads here, but anyone can see something should be done really to sort out the industry that allows this.