Author Topic: Last weekend at Tioman  (Read 8039 times)

Scubird

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Re: Last weekend at Tioman
« Reply #20 on: 13 Sep 13, 15:29 »
Secondly, I remember duirng my PADI OWC, the first 3 dives were all static practicing and testing all necessary skills like bouyancy control, clearing of mask, CESA, budy share air, buddy breathing, regulator second stage got knock off with the 2 methods of recovering the regulator, and on water surface, practice taking out and putting on weght belt, BCD, how to push and tow the other diver, there were so many basic skills to be tested and ensure trainee are proficent, then only swimming around on the forth dive, I am surprice that they were doing swimming around already within the first 3 dives? Did the instructor short cut all the skill tests?

During my DM days, I was told by my instructor actually PADI OW teaching are suppose to do half static skills half fining around for four 4 training dives. The purpose is not to “over tasks” n get some fun + practise fining for students.

But the common practise here for many DC, they prefer to clear all skills evaluation first, possible during first 2 dives, sometime need 3 dives due to unforeseen circumstances, usually because of slower learning students. If everything go smoothly, 3rd 4th & 5th dives are leisure diving.

1 thing to take note, 1st to  4th dive are training dives, if student miss any or not performance well during these training dives, instructor have all the right not certified them (aka fail them). 5th dive is a true leisure dive if time permitted, certified OW student can give it a miss if too tired but usually they will want to do it.

For Singapore diving, such weekend trip need to travel all the way to M'sia and rush back, I personally found these matter are better than PADI’s suggested way. Clear the skills first in first 2 dives, in case got any problem student (or other things) drag back the training, still got 3rd, 4th and 5th dive to play with.


If I remember correctly, for OW courses, only 2 training dives a day are allowed. Hence, the 3rd dive is usually a leisure dive. Perhaps an instructor can verify on this? There are 21 skills to be cleared in all (maybe I am outdated).

Chill dude.

For PADI, it’s not more 3 training dives a day are allowed. Hence, if student take OW in P. Hantu, they CANNOT be certified in 1 day (2 morning dive, 2 afternoon dive). Usually they do 2 dives on Sat, another 2 dives on Sun. Total 4 training dives, so they don’t really get any leisure dive. (I think they also dun want leisure dive, look at the vis they scare liao.)

Xiaobai325

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Re: Last weekend at Tioman
« Reply #21 on: 13 Sep 13, 15:59 »
I believe the 4 training dives is sequence in a slow and steady learning curve. I remember when i first did my open water diver course in tioman, i am required to perform skills during the first dive and was indeed feeling very uncomfortable as it is a totally new environment to me and i have not even get accustomed to it.

The reason why no underwater skills is suppose to be done during the first dive is to let divers get used to the new underwater environment. Rather than trying to rush finish all the skills in the first few dives and telling divers that they will have more leisure dive after that. Just like why mask removal is done only on the 4th dive, imagine you have to do mask removal on the first training dive.

lybc

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Re: Last weekend at Tioman
« Reply #22 on: 13 Sep 13, 17:31 »
Don't worry, their students will qualify, out of the 22, maybe 3 or 4 will quickly become instructors, and carry on the same behavior with their students, and it will all go on and on and on.

People are knocking the SUF guidelines posted in other threads here, but anyone can see something should be done really to sort out the industry that allows this.

There's a minimum no of dives that must be clocked before moving into instructional positions. I guess its time they relook at those qualifying numbers again.

Ddivex

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Re: Last weekend at Tioman
« Reply #23 on: 13 Sep 13, 17:54 »
There's a minimum no of dives that must be clocked before moving into instructional positions. I guess its time they relook at those qualifying numbers again.

 :-X
doesnt matter about the number of dives.
you will be surprised there are people with hundreds of dive but their skill still look like some newly cert AOW with 10 dives.

maybe these instructors are good in giving lesson at IDC course and able to handle those "act newbie" IDC students..

just some black sheep among....
revolution is nothing but the start of the next fall.

mel

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Re: Last weekend at Tioman
« Reply #24 on: 14 Sep 13, 00:35 »

The reason why no underwater skills is suppose to be done during the first dive is to let divers get used to the new underwater environment. Rather than trying to rush finish all the skills in the first few dives and telling divers that they will have more leisure dive after that. Just like why mask removal is done only on the 4th dive, imagine you have to do mask removal on the first training dive.

i don't remember doing the mask removal on the 4th dive. Mask removal should be done as early as possible as it is one of the most basic skills. what if on the 2nd or 3rd dive, a trainee's mask leaks or worse, accidentally knocked off. how would the trainee react?

once on a trip to Aur, an OW student was worried that he could not do the mask clearing drill well. (he had struggled with it during the pool session). he did not managed to do it well enough on the 2nd dive. the instructor had him do it again on the 3rd dive. it was then that he become more confident.

and on the 4th and 5th dive, he was so relaxed that he did not look like a OW diver.  :)

While different people have different learning curve, some might need more time to get used to being underwater for the first time. i prefer the trainees be competent in the basic skills before anything else.

hellhole

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Re: Last weekend at Tioman
« Reply #25 on: 14 Sep 13, 01:25 »
I remember my owd dives... everytime we had to do the mask removal drill as well as the others before we swim around. ...

More then enough time to do it

Mojo

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Re: Last weekend at Tioman
« Reply #26 on: 15 Sep 13, 13:13 »
PADI, for example, clearly outlines what skills need to be conducted in open water dives 1-4. OW dive 1 does NOT stipulate skills such as mask clearing and others, which are conducted in dives 2-4. (reference PADI Instrctur Manual 2013 edition pages 53-55). OW dive 1 focuses on "explore the dive site" ie just diving.

If an instructor deviates from the sequence as prescribed in the manual, then he/she is breaching the standards.
If a student has not mastered mask clearing, for example, in the confined session then he/she is not ready for the OW dives, and if an instructors takes this student to the OW session despite the fact that the student is not ready, then the instructor chooses to breach the standards.

Students and others divers should report such breaches to PADI's QA department so that they can take corrective actions. Student and other divers can do so by completing PADI's qustionnares that PADI occasionally sends to students or by reporting their experiences via QA@padi.com.

lybc

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Re: Last weekend at Tioman
« Reply #27 on: 16 Sep 13, 07:52 »
:-X
doesnt matter about the number of dives.
you will be surprised there are people with hundreds of dive but their skill still look like some newly cert AOW with 10 dives.

maybe these instructors are good in giving lesson at IDC course and able to handle those "act newbie" IDC students..

just some black sheep among....

I have always loved this little statement:

"Instructors. Many certified. Few qualified."  8)

Napoleon_wrasse

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Re: Last weekend at Tioman
« Reply #28 on: 19 Sep 13, 18:38 »
Students and others divers should report such breaches to PADI's QA department so that they can take corrective actions.

Which reminds me of another statement:
"Self-regulation is to regulation as self-importance is to importance"